Meet the Flipboard Master Who Gets 1 Million Views a Month

Losing faith in Google or just simply preemptively looking for new traffic sources?

Then, you don't want to miss this true masterclass on Flipboard.

We've highlighted Flipboard's surprising power as a traffic source before (links in the show notes).

And we've got a true expert returning to the podcast to share his repeatable Flipboard tactics responsible for tons of monthly traffic to his site.

Watch The Interview

Michael Dinich has had tremendous success with Flipboard as a traffic source for his site Wealth of Geeks.

Thanks to this focus, he gets about one-third of his traffic from the platform and avoids much of the pain and stress felt about Google updates.

Flipboard is described as a less time-consuming Pinterest and offers a broad approach suitable for diverse industries beyond strictly visual-centric ones.

It's platform that caters to a diverse demographic, slightly leaning towards males, and supports a wide range of niches such as finance, muscle cars, and video games.

And he's got tips on how we can follow in his footsteps.

For starters, he emphasizes the importance of participating in the community, and optimizing content for the platform. Things like:

• Creating magazines,
• Flipping trending content,
• And joining group shares.

Success on Flipboard hinges on strong headlines, engaging images, and community interaction to drive high-quality traffic and engagement rates.

And strategies like cloning posts with seasonal variations and maintaining SEO titles on website URLs can enhance visibility.

He also suggests following influencers, and adding a Flipboard button to your website are recommended for growth. And highlights how consistent effort and experimentation are key to seeing significant gains on Flipboard, with the process taking around six months.

He gets quite a bit deeper into the specifics though and if you're in the market for a new traffic source you won't want to miss this one!

Topics Michael Dinich Covers

• Importance of being an engaged user on Flipboard
• Strategies for using Flipboard effectively
• Comparison of Flipboard to Pinterest
• Community aspect and benefits of Flipboard
• Content promotion and audience engagement on Flipboard
• Demographics and niche performance on Flipboard
• Enhancing engagement with compelling headlines and high-quality images
• Joining group magazines and engaging with influencers
• Tips for increasing traffic from Flipboard
• Timeline for seeing results and the importance of consistent effort

Links & Resources

• Wealth of Geeks
• Flipboard Management by Michael's team
• Flipboard Share FB Group
• How to Use Flipboard to Generate Traffic: 31 Expert Tips in 2024! (nichepursuits.com)
• How to Get Massive Traffic from Flipboard: 61,934 Visitors in Just 30 Days! (nichepursuits.com)
• What Is Flipboard? [6 Tips For Using The Social News App in 2024] (nichepursuits.com)
• How Mike Dinich Built an SEO-Focused Personal Finance Blog with 700k Visitors a Month | Niche Pursuits
• Mike Dinich On How To Recover From Google Core Update | Niche Pursuits
• Use coupon code “podcast” to get $15 off Link Whisper to build smarter internal links fast
• Get SEO Consulting from the Niche Pursuits Podcast Host, Jared Bauman.

Transcription

Jared: All right. Welcome back to the niche pursuits podcast. My name is Jared Bauman. Today we are joined by Michael Dinnich. Michael, welcome back for a third time. 

Michael: Oh, thank you. Thanks for having me. 

Jared: I it's rarefied air. When you've been on three times as a guest, we were talking before we started recording.

There's, there's not many that can say that I don't have my Rolodex open to see how many have been on that many times, but it's because you provide value every time, so we're super excited to have you back. Thanks. Oh, you're welcome. I'm excited. Excited to be here. I mean, we'll link out to some of your earlier interviews about your website story about Google update recovery, some really great interviews, but if people haven't listened to those or maybe it's been a while since we interviewed you, maybe catch people up for a couple of minutes and then we'll, um, we'll, we'll dive into the topic today.

Michael: Okay. Sounds great. Um, well, you know, I launched a website, uh, wealthy geeks, uh, five years ago, um, not knowing, well, actually six years ago now. Oh my goodness. Six, six years ago now, uh, not knowing what a blog was and, uh, we've been growing it. And the cool thing about not knowing what a blog was and growing the website is you experiment with a lot of different things.

Cause you know, you don't know what not to do. And that's led us to, uh, experimenting with a lot of things. I'd like to think, you know, maybe even innovating a little bit. And one of those things that we've been experimenting with, uh, recently has been Flipboard and we've had great success with Flipboard and Flipboard is all about building a community and publishers helping other publishers.

So I'm excited to be here today and, you know, talk to you about Flipboard. 

Jared: I mean, it is such a, I'm going to say untapped because I don't, I don't even know if that word flipboard has been uttered on this podcast ever, you know, it's certainly not the last couple of years since I've been hosting, um, give people some perspective on the brand, the website you run.

So they kind of understand a little bit about it just so as they're listening to your examples, they might understand. You know, uh, how big the site is. Obviously it's in the finance space, you know, who you have working with you on it, that sort of thing. 

Michael: Sure. Absolutely. So wealthy geeks is now a multi niche website.

We started in the personal finance niche and we would do a little bit of geeky content on the weekends just to have a little bit of fun. The whole idea was, uh, you know, you worked hard all week. Paying the bills, uh, saving some money. So we want to give people something fun on the, you know, the weekend, uh, you know, movie review, movie roundup, something kind of fun that they can kind of geek out about, uh, and just add a little bit of levity to the personal finance space, which tends to be a little.

No kind of judgmental and, uh, uh, stoic. So, uh, we, we launched this, you know, geeky kind of side to the website. And when we run into COVID, we found that the entertainment kind of side of the website was doing as well, if not even better than the personal finance side. So we just kind of leaned into what was working and, uh, started publishing an entertainment article a day and a personal finance article a day.

Those got traction and we just started hiring people, uh, to write and produce more content. We figured as long as people are reading it, we're going to keep investing in more and more content. And so today, uh, we average, uh, just shy of 3 million page views a month. Uh, we have syndication, uh, uh, deals with a lot of, uh, You know, major media sites such as the Associated Press.

Uh, we have 18 full time employees now, uh, 34 freelancers to write for us regularly and about 50 occasional kind of freelancers to write a, you know, a couple articles a month for us. 

Jared: So pretty small operation basically. Yeah, yeah. 

Michael: A small, small 

Jared: operation. That is a lot bigger than I believe when we last talked to you.

So congratulations on the growth. Thank you. 

Michael: Yeah. I think we've been, I think, you know, when we last talked, we were about like maybe a million page views, maybe a little, a little bit over, but we, we just keep reinvesting back into the, back into the site. 

Jared: You were a different domain. I think the first time we talked, weren't you 

Michael: at one point in time?

Yeah. So we actually started off as your money geek and as we expanded, you know, we, we pivoted and changed the name to better reflect, you know, what we are today. 

Jared: Okay. That's right. Okay. It's all coming back to me. Um, so let's set the stage a bit for Flipboard and I think you're going to have to, I think everyone's going to have a little ear open right now, you know, like a little ear peaked, but maybe convince them or sell them on why they should listen to the rest of this podcast.

Why Flipboard is such a viable strategy. Just you know, give us the overview on it and maybe just some high levels of the success you're having. Cause we have a great agenda here and you're going to. People are going to hear all about how, how Michael does Flipboard, but let's kind of sell them on what we're going to talk about here for the next, next bit of time.

Michael: Well, I think the really exciting thing about Flipboard is Flipboard is the only social media network that is not hostile to bloggers, right? Like if, if you really, if you really think about it, right? Like Facebook doesn't want to send people off the platform, right? Bloggers have to go to all these heroic measures.

You have to, you know, tweet or Facebook out a meme. Then put your link in the first comment and then, you know, show back up 12 hours later to post another link or whatever to get traffic from it. Facebook doesn't want to, you know, Mark Zuckerberg doesn't want to send you any traffic. He wants to keep everybody in his ecosystem, right?

Twitter, you know, kind of the same deal, right? If you tweet out your articles, people don't really see them. It's kind of, you know, hard to get traffic from, from Twitter. Uh, you know, even as, you know, with all our team, we only get a couple of thousand page views a month from, from Twitter. Uh, so Twitter is kind of hostile to bloggers.

Reddit, don't even get me started on Reddit, right? Like Reddit hates bloggers, right? You, you have to, uh, basically camp out and post a hundred, uh, informational things before you can share like one link to do well on, on Reddit. Google, you know, it's not a social media network, but obviously Google's become.

content updates become kind of hostile towards towards bloggers. 

Jared: Yep. 

Michael: Uh, Pinterest, you know, it's maybe a little bit blogger friendly, uh, but a lot of niches don't do well on, you know, Pinterest, some do great. So Flipboard with what we love about it so much is that it's, it's a. It's really there to support publishers.

That's what it's all about. People go to Flipboard to find cool articles, right? They go there to read blog posts. So it's all about introducing people, you know, really the articles, you know, article curation and everything. And it's probably unique in that, you know, it's really the only social media network that I can kind of think of where it's actually designed to send you traffic.

So it's a great opportunity. For bloggers, it's, you know, relatively smaller than maybe a Twitter or a Facebook or even Pinterest. However, you know, their main mission is to send people, you know, traffic. So it's much more effective in sending people traffic than those other networks. 

Jared: Now I've used Flipboard before.

And I think of Flipboard like an aggregator of content. Um, and so maybe walk people through your journey to using Flipboard because, uh, it was it strategic in nature or was it almost accidental in how you stumbled upon this platform? 

Michael: It was totally accidental. Okay. So, um, like, like most things we do.

Right. Yeah. It was completely accident enough. So, um, you know, some, you know, some blogger, you know, at some point must've said, Hey, you can, you know, you can sign up for Flipboard and you can connect your RSS feed. And so I just thought like, okay, I don't really understand Flipboard. I'm going to connect my RSS feed because you know, why not?

And then all my articles are going to start going, you know, to Flipboard. And so I had my RSS feed connected, you know, maybe, Six or seven months and slowly, but surely I started seeing in Google analytics. This was before, uh, they made the switch to the, uh, do analytics. And I actually understood what was going on in my Google analytics dashboard.

Right. I saw that I was slowly getting a little bit of traffic from Flipboard and I was like, Oh yeah. Okay. You know, 2000 pages. Okay. That's something 3000 pages. That's something. Then, then, then 10, 000. Right. Then 15, 000. And then that's at that point where I just said, Hey, Hey, 15, you know, 10, 000, 15, 000, maybe there's something, you know, kind of here.

So I decided to actually like start looking into Flipboard and finding out about it and actually installed the app on my phone and started messing around with it and becoming a user and, you know, kind of studying it and just studying what's, you know, doing well. We're able to grow. Uh, unless it's in a year, we get almost anywhere from 500, 000 to a million page views a month from Flipboard.

Jared: That's phenomenal. So that'll turn people's heads. Um, you're saying that if, if, and correct me if I missed this, I wrote it down, but I, if you're getting that much traffic from Flipboard and your overall traffic was about 3 million page views, that means it's making up what, 25, 30 percent of your monthly traffic now?

Michael: Yes, absolutely. Yeah. It's about one third of our, one third of our traffic. And we also have some smaller websites. Uh, that we've acquired and we're getting anywhere from 100, 000 page views a month from Flipboard. And obviously those sites are a little, you know, earlier on their Flipboard journey, but it's definitely possible to get several hundred thousand page views a month from Flipboard.

Or possibly even more. 

Jared: So those of you listening and many people in the audience will have gotten hit by the HCU or some core update last year. Right. And you addressed it at the outset. Like there's, it's so hard to determine where to go, right? Like people are publishing content. They have this content that Google is no longer valuing or at least placing.

Reddit or other, uh, other URLs above them. This is a really interesting channel that people can pursue. Uh, at least that's from what it sounds like you're, you're doing really well on it. And I'm guessing it's a lot more than just like how much of a difference did it make from when you were just hooking up your RSS feed and noticing traffic to then where you're at now, where you, you've kind of optimized around it.

Michael: Uh, as far as the timeframe, I mean, it, it took us, uh, you know, we grow a little bit, you know, month over month, but I mean, it really, once we started focusing some effort on it, I mean, it really did start growing, you know, exponential, uh, you know, I want to set expectations, you know, accurately, you know, on it.

I don't want anybody to think that you're going to sign up for Flipboard and get a million page views a month in one month. It's going to take some time, but with all these things that blogging, like everything in this business takes time. 

Jared: And so 

Michael: like, when's the best time to get started, you know, yesterday, right?

When's the next best time to get started today. Right. So, you know, it is going to take some time for everybody to kind of figure out, you know, you know, flipboard. I'm probably a little over a year into my journey now. Yeah. Right. But, you know, if I didn't start a year ago, I wouldn't have gotten here today.

And I will say that with the helpful content update, you know, Flipboard's absolutely been a blessing, you know, represents one third of our traffic. Uh, and the revenue from it is, you know, instrumental in being able to reinvest and grow our other traffic sources. Traffic and revenue we get from it allows us to hire a Pinterest VA and additional editors and everything.

So it really just starts growing, you know, exponentially when you reinvest in your business. 

Jared: Well, let's roll up our sleeves and get into it. I I'll be selfish and say, I really want to learn all about this, but I'm sure everybody listening does too. Um, where does someone start? I mean, hooking up an RSS feed sounds pretty basic.

Uh, where do you go beyond just the RSS feed to Flipboard? Where, where does somebody go to start building this out? 

Michael: Well, the first thing, the first thing to do is create a Flipboard account. So Flipboard has three different levels of kind of profiles, if you will. So they have a regular user profile, which anybody can sign up for and start flipping content and sharing their content.

to Flipboard. Then they have a publisher, uh, a publisher profile. And what happens when you apply to become a publisher, that's when you're allowed to add your RSS feed to your magazine. So you can auto populate your Flipboard with your own articles. Um, it does take some time to get approved as a publisher so you can add the RSS feed.

And what I would say is don't wait to become a publisher to start using Flipboard. You're more likely going to get approved as a publisher if you become a Flipboard user first and actually start using the program. The, the program, the platform Flipboard wants to see that, you know, I guess I mentioned there about community Flipboard wants to see they're an active community, community member, and you're not just flipping your own content.

Even if you're a publisher or a big media website, they still want to see that you're, uh, you know, you're an engaged member of the community. So start with the profile first. You can start getting traffic even without being a publisher and hooking up your RSS feed, being able to hook up your RSS feed though, obviously allows you to automate it a little bit.

Because then you can just auto publish your articles to Flipboard and that makes life a lot easier. Then one step further than that, or in addition to that, is you can become something called a creator. Which is, you know, basically, uh, Flipboard's version of maybe like a verified, you know, on Instagram or back before Elon Musk took over Twitter, you know, verified, uh, profiles had access to some, you know, different channels, verified profiles have access, you know, uh, creators have access to some community magazines, newsletter takeovers and nice little programs that Flipboard does, you know, that's, what's so cool about Flipboard is it's actually.

A pro publisher, pro blogger, pro influencer platform. So they'll actually support you and you can get that extra support by becoming a creator. Um, you don't have to be a creator or a publisher on the platform to be successful. You can just have a regular profile, but obviously having one or both of those other, uh, types of accounts is certainly helpful.

Jared: A creator. Is that like a, like now you referenced Twitter, like that's a paid thing now. Is it just a paid thing for creator or is that a progression you go through? 

Michael: No creators and application. So it's just a designation that, They have, uh, you don't have to pay for it. You just apply. And if you're approved, then you get a verified kind of check mark, you know, like you would on Twitter.

You also get invites to participate in large group magazines that are hosted by Flipboard. Uh, Flipboard has a newsletter. They'll highlight creators in their email newsletter and, you know, help, uh, drive traffic, you know, to your magazines and to your profile. 

Jared: So you mentioned before you become a creator, before you become a publisher, be a user, maybe for someone who's never used Flipboard before, 30 seconds, like what does being a user look like?

Michael: Okay. So when you set up your profile, it's, it's very similar to like a Pinterest or, you know, kind of Twitter. There, there's no really kind of like chat functionality in Flipboard. So it's, it's probably maybe a little bit more, Like Pinterest, if you've used Pinterest, you'll be kind of familiar with the interface a little bit.

Uh, you simply, you know, set it up and then on your home tab on Flipboard, you'll see that you have a for you section and that's where Flipboard is recommending articles and, you know, some videos and such of other publishers and creators. That's like the content discovery. Arm, uh, you know, section of Flipboard, then you have your own profile and you can, the way that you, uh, share your articles on your profiles, you set up something called magazines, which magazines are kind of like Pinterest boards, but they're, they're just called magazines on Flipboard and you typically group your magazines together by topic.

So if you're in, you know, if you're an automotive blogger, you might create a magazine, you know, uh, You know, classic autos and, you know, one that's maybe muscle cars and one that's, you know, import cars, right? And then what you do is if you have an article about, you know, muscle cars. Then you just flip it into your magazine about muscle cars.

And so you try to kind of keep your, you know, topics, uh, you know, in the magazines that are kind of related. So they're organized and this helps people understand, uh, your profile and what you're, what you're about. 

Jared: Okay. Okay. It makes sense. So as a user, you're getting the ability to kind of curate what you like, and then Flipboard is going to almost plug in, uh, the specific topics or articles around, you know, muscle cars or something.

Michael: Yeah, so Flipboard will see what you're flipping to your profile and then it'll kind of make recommendations on your for you feed on what type of content it thinks that you like because you've engaged with it, you know, in the past and you can follow other profiles. You can follow other, other publishers.

And this, this is a great way to help learn Flipboard is just go in and kind of become a user and poke around a little bit and follow. Uh, you know, follow some other users, follow people that are successful in your niche on the flip board. Uh, follow some influential accounts and you can kind of see what they're doing and how they're working and, you know, kind of copy that.

Uh, it might seem a little intimidating at first and it's a little hard to explain, uh, you know, without seeing it kind of visually, but it, You know, anybody that's used like a Facebook or Twitter or, you know, I think would gravitate towards it, you know, quite naturally. 

Jared: Yeah, I remember interviewing sometime when we were trying to talk about Pinterest and it's such a visual platform, like it's kind of hard to describe without the visual aid of it.

So I get where you're coming from, but, um, but it makes sense. Um, I mean, anything else before we dive into moving on to a publisher and being a publisher and kind of optimizing around that? 

Michael: Well, I think, you know, I think the big thing is you just want to remind everyone, you know, becoming user first. I've talked to a lot of people about Flipboard and I'm like, you know, Hey, you know, how are you making out with Flipboard?

And you're like, well, I'm still waiting for my publisher application. And I was like, so you mean you haven't been flipping for the last, you know, three months since we talked and you're like, no, not really. And I think that's a huge mistake. Like, don't wait to become a publisher. Don't wait to become a creator.

The application does take long and it's certainly not necessary to be approved as a publisher. So for example, we have a food blog. Uh, one of our newer food blogs, it's doing great on Flipboard and it's not currently approved as a publisher. We have the application in, uh, you know, it's been in, you know, maybe for two months and pending and that's fine.

We just go in and manually flip the articles. You know, it's really easy to do. Uh, the RSS feed would certainly be nice. But, you know, we're not going to wait around forever. Um, if, you know, Flipboard never approves, you know, that for publishing status, you know, that's fine. We'll still be able to get plenty of traffic from it.

Jared: So hearing you say that the benefit of being a publisher is it will automatically flip your articles into Flipboard when you publish them on your website. Yes. Are there any other benefits or can I, like you said, circumvent that by going, Oh, that's a bummer. But I just got to take my article once I publish it and go put it into Flipboard myself.

Michael: Yeah. That's, that's really it. I mean, it, it's just all it does is allow you to automate it. And in some ways that automation is a blessing and con curse. Right? Right. Because you automate it, you set it, you forget about it, and you, you don't, you don't do anything where if you have to manually go in and start flip, you know, manually flip your own articles, which is basically just like tweeting, you know, flipping an article is just like tweeting an article or sharing an article on Facebook.

Right. 

Jared: Okay. 

Michael: So if you do go and do that manually, it gives you an opportunity to add a caption. It gives you an, you know, which is just like a little extra description that you can add to the articles to help increase engagement. It gives you an opportunity to learn a little bit about the platform.

People can kind of comment on your articles. So if you're going in. You know, manually and checking out your profile, you can kind of see what's going on, whereas if you just, you know, set up the RSS feed, right. And forget about it, you know, you might be successful and then you may, you may never not, you know, not.

So I would encourage anybody to start becoming a user and, you know, manually flipping things first and obviously try to get the, uh, you know, publisher status. But if you don't, that's certainly. Certainly not, you know, there's not a reason to not do Flipboard. 

Jared: Is there any, like, is there anything that goes into being approved as a publisher?

Is there anything we can do to give ourselves a better chance to become approved as a publisher? 

Michael: Yeah. Well, what I, what I've heard, you know, from talking to other people and a little bit of interactions I've had with Flipboard is that they, they like to see you be a community member, right? They're, they're real, Flipboard's really big on this community aspect of it.

So if you only flip your own content. Then, you know, they may not, you know, they may not approve you and they want to see that you're a user of the platform. So I would recommend you set up at least 10 magazines on your profile. So that way your profile is kind of filled out, obviously, uh, fill out your description and a photo.

Uh, you know, there's, you know, you, if you're a blogger, you can use your logo, that's fine. But make sure you're fully filling out your profile, just like Twitter, right? You want to just leave your. You know, your Twitter profile, a little egg or whatever, it used to come with Twitter, right? You would put an image in there, you would fill it all out.

That's right. Do do the same thing with Flipboard. Uh, flip other people's content. So if you're an automotive blogger, you know, or you know, you cover automotives, you know, uh, you know, flips car and driver, you know, flip, you know, road and track and you know, other automotive, you know, kind of magazines and other bloggers and become part of the community.

Uh, if you're a food blogger, you know, flip other foodies, travel blogger, flip, other travel, you know, entertainment. obviously flip other entertainment content and really kind of build out your profile. So it looks like you're an engaged member of the community. And the benefit of flipping other people's content as well is that's kind of how you get followers on the platform, right?

See people see that you flip their content. They go, Oh, this person must be like me. I'm going to follow them. They've kind of follow you back. There's that reciprocal kind of element that kind of happens on it. So you definitely want to become an engaged user and not just, you know, have it all be about yourself.

Jared: It's like building a brand on every platform we talk about, right? Like that's how you build a brand on Twitter or on Facebook or yeah, all those things. Okay. Uh, okay. I'm glad we went through that because I, for some reason, just assumed you hit, You hit a button, you apply to be a publisher and it's a pretty quick process.

But it sounds like you've really got perhaps what makes Flipboard so unique and so great is this high bar of participation. 

Michael: Yeah. If you've read anything that, you know, Flipboard is kind of published or anything in the Flipboard communities, you can see that like community is a really big element of what they're about, right?

They really want it to be everybody's working together to grow the community. In fact, that's why they have on Flipboard. They have group magazines. And you can invite people to become a member of your magazines. So these are kind of like group boards on Pinterest. I know a lot of people got on Pinterest, got away from doing group boards, but on flipboard group boards are definitely, you know, very, very, very powerful group boards tend to get about 60 percent more traffic than individual, or sorry, group magazines tend to get about 60 percent more traffic than individual magazines.

And we'll talk about that a little bit more. I'm sure. But. Uh, I just want to reinforce that, you know, it's really about community on Flipboard. 

Jared: Okay, good. Okay. Uh, okay. With that in mind, let's move into talking about how we can take our content. Uh, and you know, I, I'll say just broadly publish it on Flipboard going beyond just, you know, You know, hitting the RSS feed or just pushing our content.

I mean, any, any strategies you think are relevant for people listening to, you know, once they're engaged and they've been using the platform for a while to start taking advantage of with, with their content on their website. 

Michael: Yeah, absolutely. So, so one thing I like to do with, uh, our flip boards with wealthy geeks and also any kind of website we set up is I basically make a magazine for every kind of category on my website.

Okay. So if I, this is a food website and I have dinner ideas. Then dinner ideas becomes a magazine, right? And then, you know, lunch ideas, lunch idea becomes a magazine and breakfast ideas and awesome desserts, right? So the magazines, I don't go super, super niche down with the magazines. I keep them, I just mirror my categories.

I might, you know, Jazz up the naming convention a little bit. Uh, but I just kind of matched the categories on the website. And then anytime I publish in those categories, I will then add those articles to that magazine. Right. And so when you go to Flipboard, if you use the app or if you use it on your PC, when you just go to add something, uh, to, To your profile, it'll ask you what magazine you want to add it to.

So dinner ideas go into the dinner idea magazine and lunch ideas go into the lunch ideas magazine. And if I see anything, uh, on my for you page, that's kind of trending in those topics, then I'll reflip those into my own magazine. So if I have a dinner idea magazine and I see Good Housekeeping has a post on the For You tab that's being recommended and it's got, you know, 53, you know, flips on it.

So it's kind of going viral. I'll then re flip that into my magazine about, about dinner ideas or whatever would be the appropriate, you know, kind of category for it. And we'll participate and flipboard group shares where people will post links that they want to have flipped and I'll flip those into the appropriate magazines, uh, as well.

And what's kind of cool is, you know, when you do become a publisher, then you can add an RSS feed for your category into each magazine. Oh, all right. So if I have a dinner site, so if I have a category page, that's, you know, wealthy geeks, you know, dinner ideas. Then I can just take Wealthy Geeks Dinner Ideas backslash feed, right?

Give me the category feed. And I can pipe that content directly into that magazine for every, every category that we have on our sites. 

Jared: Wow. Okay. And this is sounding more and more like the Pinterest of old, if, if, if you will. 

Michael: It's, it's really quite similar to it. Um, you know, a lot of those kinds of strategies, you know, still work.

The really only difference is, you know, they're not hot, you know, Flipboard's not hostile to the bloggers yet. The algorithm still likes publishers. 

Jared: I mean, I don't wanna be too broad, but this sounds like 2019 Pinterest right now. , 

Michael: yeah. E you know, the concepts are, you know, really, you know, really the same, you know, just replace, you know, boards with magazines, pins with flips, you know, re-pins with re flips.

Yep. And, you know, it's, it's, you know, very, very, very similar. So anyone who's played around with Pinterest a little bit, uh, would, would understand it. But what's really cool about Flipboard compared to Pinterest is Pinterest, you have to make a graphic for it. Right, which becomes time consuming and with Flipboard, you don't, you know, it's just your flips use your featured image.

So if you use good featured images on your website, then, you know, that becomes the image for your flip. If you use good headlines for your website, which hopefully everybody's doing, that becomes the headline for your flip. And that's really all you have to do. So, uh, it's much less work than, than Pinterest, uh, for sure.

Jared: To your point in Pinterest, just to draw a comparison there, it's, it's great when it's great. Right? Like if you're in a visual industry, it's known to be great, but for, I'm sure for finance, like, I mean, there's only so many dollar sign pictures you can post on Pinterest before, you know, like, what do you do?

So this does seem to be a lot more broad, which is great. 

Michael: And compared, so I looked up a little bit of statistics, you know, I wanted to prepare in case you asked me any questions. We got into the weeds on this. So I want to sound like I actually know what I'm talking about. And I looked up a little bit of statistics on it and I was kind of interesting to surprise the demographics on Pinterest.

It leans, uh, a little more male. Okay. And so I thought that was kind of cool because, you know, I don't mean to stereotype, but I think when we think of, you know, Pinterest, we think of a little more feminine. And so we think of a little more kind of. Feminine, uh, you know, kind of topics, you know, tend to do well on Pinterest, right?

We tend to think of, well, you know, you know, uh, bridesmaid stresses, home decor, all of that stuff, you know, we think does fashion on, uh, Pinterest and those do well on Pinterest for sure. But we tend to think sometimes if we're in like the muscle car niche or, you know, uh, you know, blue collar jobs. Uh, you know, video games, you know, et cetera.

We, we tend not to think of Pinterest as being, you know, quite as viable where on, on Flipboard, you know, those niches are, is equally, if not, you know, more so viable than there's others. So design home decor, all of those things definitely do well on Flipboard, but we also see entertainment, video games, muscle cars, career finance content.

All that kind of stuff does well on Flipboard, Flipboard as well. So people that have maybe, you know, initially dismissed Pinterest, you know, I don't want them to hear us comparing it to Pinterest and think that they won't be successful on it because Flipboard, uh, those kinds of topics do very, very well on Flipboard.

Jared: Good point. Good point. Yeah. Um, so I mean, I guess in that vein, what strategies work to help your, Uh, and I want to make sure I'm using the vernacular right, but correct me if I'm wrong because I'll probably get it wrong, but help to make your, well, actually, how do I even say it? Your flips do better. Your flips.

Yeah. Your flips. Okay. Your flips do better. Your flips do 

Michael: better. So, uh, you know, the big thing is with Flipboard is it's a content recommendation engine. So, so people don't really search it. You know, they don't go to the search bar and they don't, you know, they don't go in there and they, they don't search cookie recipes or, uh, you know, muscle cars necessarily.

Um, it's mostly being, you know, uh, presented, curated, you know, for them based, you know, with the Flipboard algorithms. So because of that, uh, like you're really kind of like SEO kind of headlines and different things you might use on your website. Might not be very compelling for Flipboard. Like, I've talked to some recipe bloggers, and their, you know, their chocolate chip cookie recipe, like, the headline's literally, Chocolate Chip Cookie Recipe.

Okay, and it's like, okay, that's, Um, you know, kind of a boring headline, uh, you know, especially, you know, you, you know, you might want to do something like the most delicious, you know, chocolate chip recipe you've ever tried or whatever, and a really good, a really good featured image is going to get a much better, you know, a much better click through ratio than just chocolate chip recipe.

So it really comes down to your headlines. Um, you know, and then your featured image, cause that's really all you get. You get, you know, a featured image in front of the people and you get a headline and you have to entice them to kind of click. So, you know, people that are a little stronger at headlines in which, you know, I actually suck.

I personally, I feel like I'm not very great at headlines are as always my weakness, weak point. Uh, so, you know, I understand that like headlines might not necessarily be everyone's best, you know, kind of strong point or whatever, but it's definitely worth like learning How to write, you know, really strong headlines and pick out really good featured images.

You want your featured image to pop, be high resolution. You know, you want to make sure it looks good. Uh, if you're not great at, you know, feature, you know, uh, picking out headlines. This is something I, you know, I'm not a big fan of chat GDP and those type of things, but this is something that chat GDP sometimes does a real good job with, right?

You can go in and say, give me, you know, 20, you know, fun and click baity headline ideas for this topic. And it'll spit out 20 headline ideas and, you know, one or two of them will be pretty good, maybe you mix and match from the two, but you can find some really good kind of headline ideas and, and use those.

So that's really, you know, the biggest component of Flipboard is good headlines and good featured images. I should say featured images. 

Jared: Let's say we're talking to the person out there who wants to keep a very SEO title, right? Like a keyword rich title to their article, but they also want to take advantage of flipboard traffic.

Are there any strategies to get a flipboard, clickbaity, enticing, almost, I'll say like Google Discover esque topic or title to their article on flipboard, but still maintain a keyword driven, uh, SEO focused title on their website URL. Absolutely. I'm glad you, I'm glad you asked that. 

Michael: So what we do is, uh, what the geeks in our websites is we clone the article.

So, uh, Yoast has a plugin for it, Yoast clone post, um, and you can just clone the post. You canonical link back to the original, and then you share the clone to, to Flipboard. And then what you can do is, you know, the life expectancy of a flip is short lived, you know, it's maybe a day or two. It's, you know, this isn't really, You know, it's not evergreen, you know, it's not like, um, you know, it's more like Twitter in that regard, right?

The life expectancy of a tweets, what, you know, a day tops, you know, unless it goes viral. Yeah, I think it's 

Jared: actually 24 hours, unless it gets a lot of engagement, then it's 48 hours. Right, exactly. 

Michael: So, so Flipboard is very much like that. So you can make a clone of the post, share the clone. And then once you think the clone is effectively kind of run its useful lifespan, you can then delete the clone and redirect the link, you know, back to the original.

Okay. Let's see it. 

Jared: I was just going to say, and that would be very different than Pinterest where pins can live on and on and on. And I was going to draw the conclusion that as a user, it, the way you describe it almost feels like Google discover, right? Like I get these kind of curated. Topics presented to me based on my likes and then hearing that it only runs for a day or two sounds very Google discover ask, right?

Like you're only gonna typically get the article published and discover maybe a couple days for a couple days after it's published. And then that's pretty much that for the opportunity there. 

Michael: Yeah, it really is. So it's, it's, it's very much like Google discover in that sense. And those same kind of newsy.

Maybe kind of exciting headlines tend to do very well. Uh, right, you know, tend to do very well. For, 

Jared: oh man, I like this. It's like a hybrid of a lot of things that we might all have dabbled in or have a lot of experience in kind of coming together to be its own unique, uh, you know, soup with its own recipe.

Michael: Uh, as far as, you know, cloning. So one thing that we'll do with the cloning of the posts for Flipboard is not only will we clone a post to make more of a, uh, kind of a sexier for lack of a better term headline, we'll also clone the post to make a, maybe more of a seasonal or newsy kind of variation of the post.

So let's say, for example, we have a post, uh, you know, You know, 10 best ways to make 100 fast, right? It's early December, right? We'll, we'll clone that post and we'll change it to, you know, 10, 10 ways to make money for Christmas. You know, Christmas presents or something like that. And so we'll use a seasonal variation, you know, we can change the featured image because it's a clone and we maybe might take a couple things out of the article, you might add a couple things to it.

Uh, we'll share it to Flipboard and then once it's kind of run, it's kind of coarse, then we'll delete it and redirect it back to the original article. 

Jared: Oh, that's good. Okay. So you can almost bend an article for, you know, like you said, dinner recipes, right? Going back to that original analogy, like this is a winter dinner recipe.

Now it's a Christmas time dinner recipe. Now it's a snowy day, Christmas time recipe, whatever it is, you 

Michael: know, you know, let's say you have, you know, nacho recipes on your website. It's super bowl. These are, you clone it. These are the best. Nacho recipes for your Superbowl party. Now we're in March, March madness is coming up.

These are the best, you know, uh, nacho recipes for your March, you know, March madness party. And then when the, you know, you know, we had in the golf season in the PGA tour, right. Then these become, you know, nachos. I don't know if people watch nachos when they're watching golf, but, uh, if they do, you can certainly have a, uh, a post for them and that's what makes it kind of cool because it's not Google.

So you don't really need original content for it. You can use syndicated content. You can syndicate your content. You can syndicate content from a buddy. You know, a friend. You know, you could say like, if one of your blogging friends has a really great article on something, you can say, Hey, I love this article.

Could I syndicate it? And, you know, if they give you permission, you can syndicate it, share it on social media, flipboard, get traffic to it. If you have, you know, uh, display ads or whatnot on your website, you can make money off of it and it doesn't have to be original content. 

Jared: And again, just so we're listening, like to syndicate, it's very easy as provided you have that permission.

You just basically, I take Michael's article, I publish it on my own site. I canonicalize back to your article, so there's no duplicate content issues. You get the credit from a standpoint of the original content, but then I can use that on my own social media accounts, i. e. Flipboard to drive traffic.

That's really interesting. 

Michael: Yeah, absolutely. And the cool thing about that is like, what we found is the Flipboard traffic tends to be, you know, very good quality traffic. So the RPMs on it are really high. Uh, it's, it's. Of all the social network, you know, social networks, uh, you know, we're with Mediavine now, PubNation, and of all the networks, Flipboard's probably the highest of social networks as far as RPMs.

So it's a very, you know, high quality kind of traffic. We are getting great email subscribers from the flipboard traffic. Uh, so it's, you know, it's much better quality traffic. Like if you ever got a Google discover feature, like they're awesome because you'll get. Right. 20, 000, 20, 000. Right. Exactly. Right.

It'll blow up. But if you have like affiliate offers in there, you'll be like, Oh my gosh, I got so many things, I didn't make a single sale, right? Your time on page goes way down. Like all that stuff, you know, your RPMs tend to be low, but you make a lot of money because it was so much traffic. So we're not going to turn it away.

Right. But it tends not to be like super, super high monetizing content where with Flipboard traffic, we found the RPMs is higher than average. We found the email subscription rate is, is very, very strong. And I think it's because, you know, you know, people are going, why do people use Flipboard, right? They use Flipboard to be exposed to new content ideas.

They're not angry about it, right? People do not go to Reddit to read new blogs. People don't go to Twitter to read blog articles and stuff, but people do go to, you know, Flipboard to be exposed to this kind of content. So it tends to be just very high quality traffic. 

Jared: So, uh, we've talked a lot about what we can do with our content to make it best for Flipboard, including titles, images, how to share, how to reshare.

But how do we get people to start to read our flips, to engage with our flips, to take our flips and post it or reflip it, I guess, is the terminology onto their website. It's not a board. It's a magazine. Look at it. I see. I'm getting it. I'm getting it I should have studied up on the lingo before we did this interview How do we get people to engage with it?

You know, like does it just happen over time like it does with Google with good keywording? Does it happen because we engage with people and that's how the relationships are set up or is it something else that does it? 

Michael: Well, you'll get followers and you'll get that engagement just by being active on the platform.

There's not really like a, like a chat kind of function, the way there is like on, you know, Twitter, uh, people can kind of comment on articles and different things, but you know, I don't see a high level of adoption on that, on, on Flipboard. So, you know, the big thing is to just publish, you know, kind of great content and publish often.

So you get lots of followers, but then also follow influencers. In your niche so that you can get more, more followers. Cause a lot of times if you flip the content of other people, then they'll end up following you. And there's this risk, you know, reciprocity that kind of happens. Like, you know, if you share somebody's posts, they are, if you follow somebody, they tend to follow you back because just out of risk, you know, reciprocity.

So, you know, definitely, you know, follow other people. And then another way to kind of grow your profile is you want to join large group magazines. Okay. And there are several, uh, large group magazines that you can kind of join. There's a couple of blogging influencers, you know, that are big on Flipboard, have magazines that are open for people to kind of join.

So you can join those just by searching, you know, for, uh, You know, open magazines to join, but then also Flipboard, the Flipboard team runs several exchanges, which are basically their group magazines. They have a travel exchange. They have a food exchange. Um, Uh, they have, I think a photography exchange, you know, there's a handful of exchanges that you can apply to join.

You just email them, tell them you'd like to, you'd like to join. Now, even if you, this is a little bit of a hack, okay. But even if you are not in travel. Are in food, you should still try to join, join those met those exchanges. 

Jared: Okay. 

Michael: And so like, let's say, I know it might sound counterintuitive. Like on Pinterest, if you're an automotive blogger, you're going to make all your boards automotive and you're not going to probably deviate from your niche, right?

Whereas on Pinterest, what you might do is you might be an automotive blogger, but you also add a travel magazine and you add a food magazine. And because everybody eats. Right. Everyone likes to travel, you know, for the most part, right. So you can add those magazines, you can flip content into those magazines that are not yours.

So that gives you that opportunity to become a valuable community member. And then that also gives you an opportunity to join those large exchanges and start networking and getting your profile out in front of additional followers. And if you flip a cool travel article that people really like, they may end up following you.

Because they like the content that you're, you know, you're flipping and then they might also start reading your content as well. So I think it's really important to branch outside of your niche and really, you know, open yourself up to, you know, being in these other kind of group exchanges and magazines.

Jared: How sophisticated is the algorithm? We'll call it. Um, when somebody, when another brand or somebody starts following you, um, does that mean that they are going to see all of the content you post or is it more of a curated thing? I mean, I know, like, for example, on Twitter now, even I don't always see the That's the stuff from the people.

I follow Instagram's the same, but way back in the day, the algorithm used to be that if I followed someone, I'd see everything that they posted, you know, like how helpful is our followers in the overall scheme of getting your content discovered. 

Michael: Oh, so when, when people follow you, they will see everything that you kind of will see most of what you post on your, your profile, it'll show up in there.

Uh, for, uh, in their, for you feed, they might not necessarily see everything. And I don't know exactly how the algorithm determines how much of your content they, you know, they'll see of yours when they follow you. Uh, but people will see if they follow you, they'll see your profile. They can also follow your magazines.

And people might choose to follow your magazine, but not you. However, most people will follow your profile and not your magazines, which sounds like really kind of counterintuitive, but like, for example, on wealthy geeks, uh, uh, Flipboard has really nice analytics of the magazines. You're the top post and how many people are clicking them.

And if you went on my profile and you looked at all the traffic from all my magazines, and then compared that to the amount of traffic I get from Flipboard, uh, you know, maybe only 20 percent of the traffic is coming from my individual magazines, the rest of it's because they're following the profile.

So the profile seems to be a little more powerful than the individual magazines, but you have to have those magazines. Cause that's a place for the content kind of the go. And it keeps it all organized and, and everything. Um, but most of the traffic actually comes from the profiles. 

Jared: What other tips do you have to share for getting more traffic from Flipboard?

Maybe the things that you started or that you've seen work really well as you've grown from, Oh, I'm getting traffic to now a million, you know, page views a month from Flipboard. Okay. Well, the big thing is, 

Michael: uh, add a Flipboard button to your website. So a lot of social sharing plugins, uh, don't currently have a flipboard sharing, uh, button, you know, cause you know, something that bloggers are totally under utilizing flipboard, right?

So I think social warfare has a social sharing a button. I use, uh, scriptless social sharing on my website, which doesn't natively have a flipboard button, but I paid my developer 50 and he was able to add the flipboard button. Uh, to the website, uh, you'll want the Flipboard button so people can start flipping your articles, especially as you're driving traffic from Flipboard, right?

Cause when people come to your article, you want to make it as easy as possible for them to reflip your, your content. So, I mean, everyone has a Pinterest button. If you're going to lean into Flipboard, definitely add a Flipboard, a Flipboard button. Invite people and your others, you know, other social media networks, invite them to follow you on Flipboard.

Um, you know, we've had some luck sending out to our email, you know, email newsletter, like, Hey, by the way, follow us on, you know, Flipboard. Um, we've sent out tweets and, you know, onto our Facebook, you know, group may follow us on Flipboard. You know, so, you know, you're, if you already have an audience. And some of them are on Flipboard.

You know, you definitely want to try to reach them if you can, uh, and get them following you because that'll help things, you know, go viral. Uh, Flipboard also gives you a couple of like little buttons and widgets you can create. And so you can put it in your sidebar or at the end of posts, or you could use like add inserter and end it, you know, add it someplace, you know, different places, locations on your site, you know, follow this magazine on Flipboard, follow this profile on, on Flipboard, um, you know, I've seen some people have some really good luck.

They actually take a little bit of a video of their magazines and then they share it out on Instagram with a link and bio and say, Hey, follow us on Flipboard, you know, so that could be effective, you know, strategy as well. 

Jared: Man, this is great. Okay. Um, I mean, do you find yourself almost creating content specifically for Flipboard now, or is it just that Flipboard content mirrors so nicely with the type of content you published on your website already?

Michael: Um, no, I, we definitely are at the point now where we give some thought to, uh, Flipboard, but we have seen that there's some really strong correlations between, uh, you know, what does well on Flipboard and what does not well on, you know, in other places. You know, so, you know, that's kind of the cool thing about it.

You know, we might go, well, this will do well on Flipboard. Uh, what we've kind of found is like, um, on Flipboard, like, you know, negative headlines tend to kind of do well. We don't like to go real negative with our content. So we will try to. We'll try to lean into the style of headline that does well, but make it positive.

So, you know, it would be, uh, like, let's just say, you know, we have something like, uh, 18 movies that should have never been made or something, you know, that's kind of negative. So we'll try to figure out like, okay, is there a way that we can put a positive spin on it? So it might be 18 ways, you know, 18 movies that should never have been made and how we'd fix them.

And we offer a little bit of a solution and that'll tend to do well. On Flipboard, uh, and then we might produce, you know, more content, you know, like that. Flipboard has really nice analytics, so you can see what people are engaging with. You can see what your click through ratios are on Flipboard. So if you see something that, you know, your audience is really resonating with, you know, you can publish it.

And the cool thing is, because Flipboard is, you know, the, your postings on Flipboard are relatively short lived, you know, you get to keep going back and take additional bites at Apple. Like, you know, 30 days from now we can take that same article, reshare it again. Maybe we cloned it. Maybe we changed, tweaked the headline a little bit.

Maybe we changed the featured image just so it looks a little fresh, but we can reshare it and we can get that kind of traffic, you know, all, all over again. You don't have to just keep buying new, you know, new content or hiring more and more writers to produce the content. You can just reuse a lot of what you have.

So 

Jared: we're coming up on time, but I'd love to at least hear what, what is a daily process look like, what is our monthly process, however it is that you actually get into the workflow of this, what does it look like for, for your team and everybody listening, knowing that you're probably doing a lot given the size of your site and staff, but just even still hearing the process would probably be really helpful for people to kind of get their mind wrapped around what it would look like to put time consistently towards this.

Thanks. 

Michael: Sure. So it really only takes a little bit of time a day. We don't devote a whole lot of time to it. I've actually changed my children and how to do it. So my daughter, my daughter is 60. Thank you. My daughter is 16 and my son's 14 and I showed them just kind of like how to flip things and reflip things.

And so they kind of run the flipboard. They kind of run the flipboard profile for me. So done. Yeah, thank you. So, I mean, we do, uh, I will check it out, you know, a little bit. I have it on my phone. Uh, but we teach them to do it, but the big strategy, I think, you know, really kind of helped us grow has been participating in, in Flipboard shared groups, you know, if you're familiar with blog share groups, you know, on Facebook, you know, they have these groups on Facebook, you go in, you drop your link that you want other people to share, and then you reshare the links of other people.

And so, um, You know, that's kind of what the, our kids do, you know, for us, they'll take one of our articles, they'll reshare one of our posts, and then they'll flip the posts of, of other bloggers. Then I like to go in, um, Myself on my phone. I have the flipboard, uh, on my phone and I'll just kind of see what's trending on in the for you section and anything that's kind of going viral or seems to be getting a lot of engagement.

I'll go in and re flip that kind of, you know, manually just to help kind of grow, grow the profile. So, uh, you know, that's the kind of thing I like to do when, you know, my wife, you know, runs into target to grab something quick, I'll pull out my phone and I'll work on doing a little bit of flips. So. You know, really only takes about, you know, 10 to 15, you know, minutes a day.

Jared: That's, that's pretty, uh, that's pretty, that's pretty darn manageable to at least give it a fair shot. Now, um, just to put it all in context and kind of bring us to a close, like roughly what was your timeline? On from when you, you know, first noticed the flipboard doing well because it was hooked up to your RSS feed before you started seeing, you know, uh, increases with your gains.

And again, you said it would take a while for people listening. It's not a silver bullet. It's not a, uh, a magic wand. You can wave tomorrow and have it all done, but like, just give people kind of a horizon in terms of timing for what they can kind of expect going forward. 

Michael: Uh, I think, I think it took about six months from when the slip, you know, ish.

I think from about when the. RSS feed was set up to, it started attracting my attention. 

Jared: Yeah. 

Michael: Right. And then after that, I think, uh, once we started leaning into it, it took about, you know, a little over six months to really kind of scale it up to, to where it is, where it is now. Um, I think that the first six months could have been, you know, if I had known what I know now, I Right.

You know, I think the first six months would have been much, much actual effect, you know, faster. I just didn't know anything about the platform. So I didn't know what to spend even 10 to 15 minutes a day, really kind of messing around with it. Uh, so I certainly think, you know, that could have been sped up.

You know, we have a website that we purchased one of our food websites. We purchased that website mid October and of last year, that website's getting about 300, 000, you know, monthly page views on Flipboard. So we started in October. So, you know, that's about five months. For, you know, a couple hundred thousand page views.

Um, so, you know, if you, if you have a process in place and you kind of follow the system, you can definitely, you know, uh, speed things up, you know, a little bit, uh, but it does, you know, it does take time. So I want to temper expectations. I obviously, right. Because, you know, uh, for example, you know, pregnancy takes nine months.

You can't assign more ladies to it and speed it up. So, you know, Flipboard is going to take a certain amount of time. Uh, but you know, uh, if, if you do it, you, you know, you spend a little more effort into it, you can certainly speed it up to some extent. 

Jared: You heard it here first. It's quicker than having a baby.

According to Michael. Yeah, 

Michael: quicker than having a baby. 

Jared: There we go. Hey, um, this is wonderful. I could ask you another hours with the questions. But where can people catch up with what you're doing? And certainly learn, like I said, learn more if they want about, you Kind of this flipboard process that you've, uh, to some degree mastered.

Where can people follow along? 

Michael: Uh, absolutely. Well, we do have a, uh, a group, a flipboard share group that's available to all bloggers just to help build the community. It's a, uh, insiders, Facebook group. I'll give you the link for that, that you can add, uh, so people can join that for, for free. Uh, we also have.

Uh, a flipboard, you know, management, um, that we offer. So people, people can join that. And I made a special pricing and special offering for, uh, people that are part of the niche pursuits community. So I'll give you the link, uh, for that. And we do run a blogging mastermind group where we teach people blogging, no offense, tactics, strategies, and everything.

And that's it. Join insiders. com. 

Jared: Perfect. Well, I will get those links and I'll make sure that they end up in the show notes. Thank you for creating something for the audience. Always appreciated. Um, and yeah, we've had you on to talk about that insider community before. So if you do listen to the old podcast episodes with Michael, you'll probably get a refresher on that.

Um, and To close out, is there anything important that I, because I'm, I'm a novice at this, like I'm, I'm brand new at Flipboard. So is there anything I didn't ask you that you think is really important that people hear before we kind of sign off on this topic? I 

Michael: mean, I think, I think the most important thing is to just get started.

Like, like every. You know, every part of blogging, I remember when I first started blogging and I didn't even understand how to use WordPress or set like each two tags. And now that seems so simple today, right? Like a Flipboard seems, you know, kind of maybe intimidating to somebody that hasn't used it before.

But once you just spend a little bit of time with it, That'll all become, you know, quite intuitive. So, you know, most important thing is to just build that momentum. So I'd say, you know, download the app, start messing around with, you know, start messing up with it. The cool thing about being, you know, new on the platform is no one's following you when you're new.

So if you make a mistake. Nobody saw it. So just jump on the platform, you know, start experimenting with it a little bit. Start following some people, follow me if you want, and you can see, uh, what we're doing, but the most important thing is to just get started. 

Jared: Yeah. That's a good point. Boy, you know, you make a video on YouTube, we all have to, it's, it's there.

Right. But with Flipboard, yeah. Get started, make mistakes and learn as you go. That's a good point. Kind of feels like, um, a lot of things nowadays. Uh, Michael, this is wonderful. Hour flew by. I wish I could have you for another hour on this topic. Uh, I'm so excited to, to, to share this with everyone. And, um, thanks for just bringing this kind of, uh, concept that I, like I said, I don't think we've ever talked about here in the podcast before.

Certainly not in many, many years if we have. So I really appreciate all the value you brought. Oh, you're welcome. Thank you so much for having me. Well, and I can say this with, uh, with, with truth until we talk again. I'm sure we'll see you again sometime. 

Michael: It sounds good. Thank you.

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